The Malaysian Insider

Religion i believe is something very personal betweeen that particular person and GOD and only he or she has the right to choose his / her believe, not by force, not by law - i am not refering to maly /musli in malaysia.

Hotel California

There's nothing new in this statement, except that fact that it's being made so frankly. At least the Malaysians should have the honesty of removing words about religious freedom from their constitution.

Messed up.

Real freedom should come with no exceptions

Doesn't this contravene the UN Declaration of Human Rights ?

When God created us, He also gives us the choice of whether to follow Him. Note that the choice comes from almighty God. Otherwise He would have created robots!! All problems solved!

Religion is a serious matter that everyone should respect it. We might find some incident and events that is hard to comprehend sometime but we must also realize that as our society move forward, we can discuss this issue openly and be honest to ourselve, we will find acceptable approach by all.

No offence, we all need to reflect and ask ourselve "Do I know my religion and understand the society that I live in?". .. Again, be honest to ourselve !

Freedom is never absolute. No one can be compelled to join any group, organisation or institution. But onece a member there is no freedom to go against its rules and regulations and make a mockery of it. embrace a religion but never the freedom to go against its rules and make a mockery of it. Islam has its own rules and regulations.

Laws made by Man not by GOD. May GOD have Mercy on those Muslim Law makers

Could someone enlighten us whether Quran forbids its followers from leaving Islam ?

What I know is that Islam treats Muslims and Non-Muslims as brothers.

The judge conveniently not mention that it can only be so because interpretation amended article 121 (i.e., 1A and only since 1988 part of the judicial crises started by Dr. M) that the Federal Court is no longer the highest court of the land. Not by virtue of the original constitution or a more liberal intepretation of article 121.

Muslim view of religion freedom is different as other religions.
if u r malaysian, u r bound to malaysian law. Nothing that makes u free as a bird just as the name of freedom. same goes to muslim, they r bound to islamic law. for muslim, Islam is the way of life, not like others, mostly view their religion as only obligation to God only and personal matters.
For Muslim, they are all interconnected, from a human to his/her God, a human and human relationship, a human relationship with animal and other things. although maybe not all Muslim practicing true Islam, but on the conversion matter, it is principal issue. Muslim does not tolerate a Muslim who convert to another religion or apostasy. This is not because we do not want to uphold religious freedom, but we do not want to let the Islamic religion conversion a simple matter like changing clothes. when one people has put their faith in Islam, he must ready to understand the Islamic religion principles, because there are obligation and duties in which, he not only serve as God's servants but he must maintain his behavior in every aspects. Other religions maybe a bit differs in terms of practicing their religion and their faith, so there is not a problem for conversion. for Muslim, it is an insult to the religion and God.
For Muslim, freedom of religion mainly is in the aspects of practicing their religion freely without any doubt.

Freedom is not as free as bird. Freedom of expression must come with responsibilities, not just as to speak whatever they beleive and not looking other people. Speak their mind is good, but first review oneself first, is it hurt when people talking something very offensive to us.

Now who will be the first to attempt to refer Malaysia to the UN Human Rights Commission for this?

An easier solution would be to migrate to places where religious freedom and the separation of church and state are taken seriously, both by the legislature and the judiciary.

Malaysia isn't the only game in town.

if the heart is not in it, it dont matter really..

Honestly, where would Islam be today if not for the "strict" rules/laws that they have to follow, no matter what!

Look on the other side, look at where Christianity has been for "not" following the rules so strictly.

The balance is the key: People need to have freedom to choose their religions and have obligations to adhere to the religion of their choice once the choice is made. Of course, every religions need an exit clause if found not to be suitable.

Yes, just accept the reality . !! What the retired judge said is correct, correct , correct !!
Malaysia boleh !!!

Strange thing indeed. What I believe is between myself and my God, why should any laws come between my inner self and my God? No constitution can deter me from believing in what I want to believe.

I am talking about every religion, not only Islam.

"religion is something very personal between that particular person and GOD"
I always heard this from many non-muslim and also non practicing muslim...which however really does not go well with Islamic tenets. Islam govern its followers from all angles of life, since one is born till AFTER one dies. that's why for eating Islam has the Halal concept, for doing business and money related, Islam has Islamic finance, for criminal it has Huhud & qisas and so on...

The thing is, Islam never ask anyone to be a Muslim BUT once you are Muslim, no revert back.

Ok, then someone will definitely ask, what about those born-Muslim? How those would like to renounce Islam if they dislike Islam? This should not happen in the first place if the guy really understand Islam and properly educated about Islam.

The problem is usually this happen if someone is born from broken, non-practicising Muslim family. This happens in Malaysia because UMNO want to make Islam just like the dear "former BN supporter" understand about Islam as private relationship between one and the God. Why is that so? Simply because they con continue to rob the country wealth under the Malay supremacy concept which really go against the real Islamic value and tenet.

Christianity, Hindu, Buddhism, Islam etc. are religions but they are not the same. Each has it's own set of rules. Human rights/Federal Constitution and religions again are three set of different rules. To be fair, treat each entity as it should be treated according to it's own rules.

Simply in the name of the Federal Constitution or Human Rights, they cannot overule values/rules enshrined in any religion.

So if you had entered Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia, you cannot simply quit through Oxford University. As you have choose Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia, you have to quit through Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia.

The problem with Moslem converts is that they don't study first the rules of apostacy in Islam before they become Moslems and later when they wish to revert to their old religion or any other and found themselves in a predicament, resorting to the federal Constitution or Human Rights is of no help. The correct course is to go back to the venue of Islam - the Syariah Court for religious statutory declaration.

The personal believes of someone cannot be forced.

Simply saying you cannot leave Islam, doesn't make that person a good muslim. If you want to be a good muslim (or Hindu, or Christian), you must believe with your heart and soul. If you are just 'going trough the moves' because is expected of you, what will God think of that?

So what then, is the benefit of keeping someone in against their will?
Surely it's not something God would come up with, or no one would want to renounce his faith,
He would simply 'make it so'.

Let people go where their heart goes!

Even Indonesia allows its citizens to choose the faith of their choice. Being a Malay in Malaysia means you are also a Muslim even if you are a atheist. That is the paradox. Once in, never out even if you do not believe in the tenants of Islam. Any good in that? I think God is aggrieved that his creation is FORCED to believe in Him. He gave us freedom of choice for a reason or else everyone will be born a believer. Think about that

"Ok, then someone will definitely ask, what about those born-Muslim? How those would like to renounce Islam if they dislike Islam? This should not happen in the first place if the guy really understand Islam and properly educated about Islam.

The problem is usually this happen if someone is born from broken, non-practicising Muslim family."

Pardon me, but I must say that the statement above by Azmin is an outrageous assumption that cannot be proven.

We see here muslims audaciously speak of other religions, some say other religions are different from Islam, some say Islam is very different from other faiths, but do they know what they are actually mumbling?

Muslims in Malaysia know nothing about other religions outside their faith. The information on other religions was passed to them through their ustaadhs, whom obtained their info from their respective ustaadhs, whom obtained their info from their respective ustaddhs.... yes, it can go on forever...., not of whom has first hand info. All non-islamic religious publication in the country bear a warning statement "not for muslim" on the cover, it works similarly to the "halal" stamp on food produce. The only difference, the "halal" means edible, and the one on the book cover says "non for you to read".

It doesnt mean to be belitling, but honestly, 99% of Malaysians muslims' view on other religions was indeed acquired through pinhole: fragmented, and upside down.

At the end of the day , WHO JUDGES YOU? GOD!!!! Then who are you to force us. Whatever religion we choose , we are answerable. Grow up man!!! You are living in a nut shell and want us too.

I don't believe so. Very often, we hear and read about Muslims who write as if they are authorities in Islamic Jurisprudence. But more often than not, most of them know 'Jack-shit'! These are quite prevalent with the Malays in Malaysia. Not all Malays mind you, but quite a lot of them.... Why is it when these clan of Malays speak up, they seem so adamant that they are speaking on behalf of God! As if they already have a private conference with their "God" and they are the only ones privy to it.

Whilst they are many scholars in Islam say otherwise but strangely Malaysian Muslims seem to understand a different kind of Islam. Pray, tell me, are there many versions of Islam?

There are scholars such as Hadrat Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz [d. 97 AH/720 AD] [popularly known as Umar II and regarded as part of the Khulafa-i-Rashidoon], brahim al-Nakha'i [d. 95 AH] [a leading jurist and traditionist among the generation succeeding the Companions]; Sufyan al-Thawri [d. 161 AH]
[known as 'the prince of the believers concerning Hadith' (amir al-mu'minin fi'l-Hadith) and is the author of two important compilations of Hadith, namely al-Jami' al-Kabir, and al-Jami' al- Saghir]; Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi [d. 389 AH] [An eminent Hanafi jurist and author of al-Mabsut]; Shaikh Mahmud Shaltut [1893-1963] [A prominent Egyptian Islamic scholar. He was the shaykh or grand imam, i.e. the leader, of Al-Azhar Islamic Institute in Egypt from 1958 to 1963] and many, many more....who agreed that although it's a sin in the eyes of Islam to leave the religion but one should be allowed to do so.

Even Islamic Research Department, Al-Azhar University, made a statement "The Islamic Research Department of Al-Azhar University has called the penalty for apostasy as null and void and has said that the ways of repentance are open for the whole life. ... So an apostate can repent over his mistake anytime during his life and there would be no fixed period for it." [Al-Alamul Islami, the weekly organ of Rabita Alam al-Islami, 23rd August 2002, quoted in Dr. M. E. Subhani, Global Media Publications, 2005, p. 25].

And when the likes of "Azmin' attempt to state his idiotic explanation such as "The problem is usually this happen if someone is born from broken, non-practicising Muslim family.", is an insult to me who is proud to be Malay but do not appreciate to be associated to any form of religion as religion and faith are truly very subjective and personal.

Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives.

You may regulate matters of my life but you can never regulate matters of my heart.

Bona fide
CT