The Malaysian Insider

The head of the national fatwa council should resign. He had overstepped his boundary and bypass the Sultans who are the head of Islam in the various states. He purposely did not go through the proper process and try to usurp the power this is not his. He must be punished to set an example to other civil servants who has the same idea.

It is good and welcome that the Malay Rulers are playing rightful their role in society again, to check and balance excesses of any branch of the govt or even opposition parties. We saw it in the appointment of MBs, Speaker of State Assembly and now on this fatwa on yoga.

Perhaps the cries of "Daulat Tuanku" by the rakyat as a last resort just before GE12 for the Malay Rulers to intervene against injustice has been heard and they are acting on it now. Remember Bersih and other online petitions to the Agong to correct injustice in the system.

DAULAT TUANKU, Malaysian are bless that the royal are now voicing their concern affecting their RAYAT. Non muslim also come out to voice concern that affecting their brothers and sister that are the followers of muslim, they want them to be part of the action that helps in improving health and to promote the spirit of muhibah.

Malaysian boleh.

i totally agreed with their royal highness - Sultan of Perak, Selangor & the Negeri Sembilan that the sultans & the King is the ultimate guardian on islam and its religion. Any fatwa or rulings that may affect the people must be refer to their royal consent. This is the customary rights of their monarchy. People will not be confused or side track.

The sultan has spoken up but what is disturbing is our Minister silence on the matter. This issue should be highlighted & not sweep under the carpet. sometimes 'silence is not golden'

concerned citizen

Those public servants appointed by BN government have long practised "small Napolen" disregard the constitutional rights of sultans and we rakyat.

We rakyat usually are powerless when facing these public servants. Now they are hitting the wall on fatwa issue with their arrogant "small Napoleon" mindset.

Daulat Tuanku !

DAULAT TUANKU!!

Remember, if you're a non-muslim, like me, do not post your coments on the fatwas as they do not concern us.

Non-muslim
written by sweetnoob, November 27, 2008

Remember, if you're a non-muslim, like me, do not post your coments on the fatwas as they do not concern us.

====================

Your logic is...Taliban followers spraying acid on muslim women also not a concern for non-muslims in the world because the victims are muslims.


Rakyat shall have right to express constructive views on issues surronding them, but be refrained from insulting ulamaks, tok guru and muslim clergies. Let focus on issues, not the persons.

The earlier comments have said all that i wanted to say.

I only want to add just a touch more.....please read the very apt article from RPK at the following link:

http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/15353/84/

I believe it summarises the issues with the fatwas properly (altho it might not sit proper with the hooligans at the council and their political masters ;) )

Also i feel the Royals have taken a positive stand on the issue and made their presence known in a very suitable time.

3 cheers again for them.....Daulat Tuanku.

Dear NKKhoo,

Spraying acid to women by Taliban must be condemned but it is not an issue about FATWA. We are talking about FATWA here. So, don't get involved with FATWA issue if you are not a Muslim. Remember, the National Fatwa Council members including muftis appointed by the Malay Rulers and they are Islamic Scholars. They will have different opinions as scholars but they will come to a consensus. BTW, have you read in full and understand the Edict?

As far as I know the Agung is head of Islam in the Federal Territories only, not of the whole nation. Islam is always headed by a Sultan or Raja (for Perlis). JAKIM's juridiction is only in the Fed. Territories as Islam is the prerogative of the Sultan/Raja (Malay rulers).

Anyway, I'd like readers to read this website on how yoga is viewed by other Muslims outside of Malaysia.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3852

SlimBelly and Daniel Chang,

I do not comment on fatwa not because I am not a muslim, but purely because I have no good knowledge on islam teachings.

I had learned islamic civilization subject when I was in university, I believe I acquired more knowledge than both of you on islam. Anyway I am still a non-muslim after learning islamic civilization, I hope muslims here shall not afraid of learning "hindu yoga" IF you believe in your own faith and God.

SlimBelly and Daniel Chang, your comments are emotional and bias against islam.

Dear All,

First of all let me apologize, as a non-muslim, maybe I should have refrain from making my earlier comment. But what i try to point out is that can we had a FATWA that really focus in helping Muslim and not go after minor issues that did not improve my muslim brother and sister.

Going after issues on YOGA this absurd, yes is is true it has no concern for non-muslim, but if their salary are coming from the income tax of everyone then is the concern of every citizen. Becuase their time, effort and should had been use for betterment of Malaysian muslim.

There more critical issues that FATWA should focus into;-
1. Jemaah Islamiah teaching that has side track our decent muslim citizen - that need serious attention - how to avoid that.
2. Educate non-muslim on pure muslim and islamic teaching as a sharing basis - so no one try push aside non-muslim by "if you are a non-muslim stop ...this and that..."
3. Translate islamic teaching and good values into other language e.g. Mandarin, English and even Tamil. Invite others to learn more
4. Introduce good Islamic Financial Practice - this one of the best invention from Malaysia to the world
5. Educate our people on what is HALAL - that is important to Malaysian - its one of the way we stay away from China food import
6. Introduce comparative religion teaching - in highlighting the good teaching and values, ethics of all religion - which lacking from leaders - Thank God our Rulers are still showing good examples to the people

It's true that non-muslim should not and will not question on FATWA - it just that there so much to done for Malaysian and yet has been the centerstage of focus for the country unity and inter racial harmony.

My last point is that ISLAMIC TEACHING is good for the people meanwhile there we who refrain from getting near to good islamic teaching because we are constantly be reminded if we are a non-muslim we have no rights.

I remember when I was in form 3 after reading the Quran in English, I find such a great teaching that I ask myself while my teacher never share with us (my teacher is a Muslim) on the Quran values. It was beautiful teaching and ask my teacher - she answer me you are non-muslim don't ask about that.

I had resort to keep quiet after that for years.

For those of you who said, Non-Muslims - please dont comment. Please go check your emotions or get your heads checked. This is a democracy and people can say what they want. TO be fair, most of the comments are not slanderous and are just opinions. If you feel offended, than just continue reading The Star which is one way traffic media instead of blog related news sites which are open to views. But really, why are you offended? I dont see any of the comments insulting Muslims.

I feel that Tuanku Raja Nazrin shah should enter politics, will be a good leader for Malaysia.

Presumably there are some muslims and non-muslims advocated non-muslims shall keep away from fatwa matter since fatwa is not their business. This sound quite logic for first look, but I see we are falling into cocoon mindset slowly.

We shall sensitive to the faith of other people, but "lock out" people from different faith from your religion comfort zine is like living in the stone age primitive society where inter-religion interaction is no needed.

Ask ourselves this question, have you read and understand other religion bible/Quran or holy books? If not, how do you believe other religions are also good to mankind?

The religion conflict usually arises when we do not understand each other faith.

Azmin, I fully respect your fatwa. Some people like to shot aimlessly on other faith.

I am curious on its application. Taliban muftis used to issue fatwa that muslim girls cannot study in schools. Malaysia Fatwa Council may disagree with this fatwa.

Who is right from the perspective of this fatwa?

I've just been slammed by a stranger blogger for commenting on the yoga thingy; apparently, there are still immature people around - lots of them. People who claim they uphold the principles. What principles, I don't know. These people don't get caught for insulting non-Muslims; we do because we're not one of them. It's difficult to understand the way these people think.

Being absolutely quiet, I guess, is the ONLY way to create harmony but then... it also gives others a chance to step on our heads, knowing very well that we dare not retaliate.

/// written by azmin, November 27, 2008
First of all... do you know what is fatwa????? If you don't know... please don't make any comment which is insulting Islam...

For your info.. FATWA is guidelines agreed by the Ulama... without having enforcement power to follow.. no arrest for those who don't follow... so it's up to MUSLIMS to decide to follow of not... If you don't follow.. it's between you and the god... but FATWA will be useful for MUSLIMS who want to follow religious teaching to be as a GUIDELINE.. ///

Azmin, it is you who needs to know what fatwa in the Malaysian context means. It is not just a guideline - it is backed up by the Syriah law.

Section 9 of the Syariah Criminal Offences ( Federal Territories ) Act, 1997 provides :

Any person who acts in contempt of religious authority or defies, disobeys or disputes the orders or directions of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong as the Head of the religion of Islam, the Majlis or the Mufti, expressed or given by way of fatwa, shall be guilty of an offence and shall on conviction be liable to a fine not exceeding three thousand ringgit or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both.

For your further education, please go to the link below:

http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/

- and read the thread on "If the Majlis Fatwa gets it wrong, and Pak Ahmad follows unquestioningly, who picks up the tab in the hereafter?"

To Daniel Chang

It is now you start to questioned about Islam right? Your concern on Islamic Law and Islam as a general is good for us.. What is needed now is a good and knowledgeable Muslim to answer all you questions... Maybe someday your heart will be open for truth.

To vandettaV

we are willing to accept any constructive comment if the commentator comment is based on pure and high level of understanding on Islam . not just from simple Islamic studies course or by rumors and unprofessional forum. Islam have a vast branch of knowledge which cover every aspect of human life... if you can see what going on now is, non muslim keep on suggesting sarcastic ban on B.Melayu, TV, Wedding... That is an Insult..

Azmin,

Do we not know what fatwa is? First of all, do you know what it means to insult or to demean, and do you know our target of criticism?

1. It is not the religion itself that we have a problem against. It is the guideline that has been issued against simple logic and common sense, seemingly biased against certain groups of people. And for decades it seems that the NFC had no problems at all with Muslims learning Yoga. It would also be a statement of fact to say that not all Tomboys are Lesbians, and not all Lesbians are Tomboys. There is no correlation between the two. How are all these edicts or guidelines justified?

1. The justification for these edicts are in itself nonsense. Note that again, the issue is with the edicts and the issuers of the edicts. And do note that the scholars are self-claimed scholars, and need not prove themselves to anyone not in their department. Also note that these scholars try to shut others up, going against simple critical thinking, which encourages argument and debate. Emotional attacks and personal attacks as i quote "now you had made yourself look like a fool to comment about that Tomboy FATWA without having to know what is a FATWA?????" have no bearing and lend no strength to your argument. Your multiple examples and analogies do, but they are but a small part of the examples. The main aim of your argument is lost.

1. Last I heard, they were in fact discussing how to enforce the ban on Yoga and Tomboys. So if these are in fact merely guidelines, why the need to enforce them? If they are not to be enforced and are purely voluntary, then why the need for the edict when you expect the guidelines not to be followed anyway? Imagine if Malaysia decided to make a guideline for the importation and trafficking of coccaine. We say it is not recommended but you need not follow. Is there a point in such a guideline that expects no one to follow it? Even GAAP accounting principles and guidelines are enforceable in Malaysia. Using non-accepted methods of accounting in a company can land it in trouble with auditors and the IRB. Comprehende? You must admit that either there is no point to the fatwa, or that it is misguided. And whichever it is, we will not look down on the religion, merely on the wrongly religious.

1. Insulting certain leaders of the religion is not equal to insulting the religion. Making a joke about the Pope, is not making a mockery of Katholikos. Even mocking the institution is not poking fun at their God. Making jokes and disrespectful jabs at God, is insulting the God and the deity's religion. Comprehende? Hopefully so.

1. You are right, no one should be insulting Islam. But please also show that the followers that represent or claim to represent the religion do not insult the religion themselves. This happens mainly when they issue extremely illogical and stupid edicts, or inhumane ones that tarnish the reputation of the religion. This is akin to the CEO or Directors of a company, say Proton, caught running around naked in Bukit Bintang. Proton would then be perceived negatively unless running naked in Bukit Bintang is a positive act in our country. So often, it is not so much that commentators want to insult the religion, but that the practitioners and representatives of the religion bring shame upon themselves and their religion by association. Learn to separate the Muslims from Islam. This can be beneficial when arguing about the solidarity of the religion.

1. Constitutionally, the Malay rulers are the designated heads of the official religion of the Federation. However, I do not believe that the religion itself made any provisions for them to be in that position. It is only possible to believe that they are there due to:
a) their social status
b) certain traditions of the race which I do not care for
c) The Constitution, which itself was a product of many compromises between the Malay states

1. I obviously do not agree with you. That does not mean you cannot say what you want, no matter how negatively anyone else may perceive it. This means that I may say what I want no matter how wrong you think it is, and you may also say what you want, no matter how retarded I may think it is. But when arguing I will not resort to name calling and uncivilised shouting or cursing. Comprehende?

Good day.

Azmin, if you read Harris' latest blog on his research .. the fatwa are laws to be enforced and there is repercussion if not heeded. And there is also a clause that they can't be questioned. He based it on the Federal Territory Syariah law. Of course, other states may differ. Take a look ya.

Dear All,

I could not explain everything about Islam in this forum. Please read the fatwa on Yoga below:

"The Fatwas of Religious Council in Islamic affairs which took place on 22-24, 2008 in Kota Bharu Kelantan included Yoga cases in their agenda. After carefully studied various reports and factual data, the Council unanimously agreed that this ancient India religious teachings, which involves physical and mental exercises, are Hinduism in nature known as wahdat al-wujud philosophy (oneness of existence; the realization of identity between the Self in man, Atman; and the Divine, BRAHMAN: ‘Brahman is all, and Atman is Brahman). It is prohibited (haram) for Muslims to practice it.

The Council unanimously agreed that whatever actions or conceptions imitate the Yoga’s teachings such as to practice the asana yoga or self annihilation (nirvana) is against the Islamic faith. Any physical activities which apparently not Hinduism in nature, are not included in these Fatwas. Anyway, Muslims have to be fully aware in order their religious faith and practices not to be jeopardized. One has to be conscious that one of these three elements can effect Muslim’s faith:

-Believe in heart;
-Verbal confessions; and
-Actions

In view these elements contained in the teachings of yoga, Muslims are advised not to be involved into them so as their faith is not eroded.

As you all can see, it is an advice and reminder to Muslims to be careful with their faith. The fatwa also mentioned "Any physical activities which apparently not Hinduism in nature, are not included in these Fatwas". You can read the fatwa at http://www.islam.gov.my/portal/yoga_Bi.php

In democracy, freedom of speech does not mean we could say anything we want without thinking about the consequences. What if whatever you say would provoke unrest? What I am advocating is...if you are not an authority or really understand about other people religion, please do not try to be an expert. You probably has a good intention but you might end up insult or create anger and animosity. We have our own belief and it is our duty to follow what we believed.

I appreciate your concern on your Muslim brothers and sisters and I appreciate your willingness and sincerity to understand more about Islam. Just have some tactfulness when commenting as not everybody is level headed especially with some labeling in the comments. We do not want this matter to be blown out of proportion. Prevention is better than cure.

Peace Upon You

The Regent of Negeri Sembilan was SPOT ON, when he said, so leaders LOVE to MICROMANAGE...

1. Insulting certain leaders of the religion is not equal to insulting the religion. Making a joke about the Pope, is not making a mockery of Katholikos. Even mocking the institution is not poking fun at their God. Making jokes and disrespectful jabs at God, is insulting the God and the deity's religion. Comprehende? Hopefully so.

=====

What is your religion? I would like to draw a cartoon to poke fun on your father or monk. That shall be ok for you, am I right?

I remembered Minolta camera did put up an adv with a monk and a monkey side by side. To insensitive people may call the adv is just a joke, but many local Buddists assumed the adv is an insult to their monk and faith.

Minolta did the right thing, withdrew the adv immediately and apologized to Buddists.

So the argument on the yoga edict goes on. For the Muslims out there, please bear in mind that the non-muslims can only make conclusions based on what they read and from the responses of the politicians. May I remind you that this entire time the fatwa was to BAN yoga, regardless of what it the actual text says and regardless of what the fatwa council was initially created for.

When you say that they are only guidelines, why is it called a "ban on yoga"?

It is to this that the Sultans are responding to. Again, the keyword: ban.

Do not say that they are only guidelines, because they are not. I also have to comment on the slow response of our PM Ahmad Badawi... he only had a say in all this after the initial crunch period and only after the rulers announced their disagreement. If it is true that the fatwa did not ban yoga, then he should have clarified this a loooong time ago. The link as posted by Insider depicts the fatwa's contents http://www.islam.gov.my/portal/yoga_Bi.php
but I am sure this is pretty new and the part where it says it is actually OK to do yoga without the chanting and Hinduism elements was added recently.

1. nkkhoo, I do not have anything to do with any organized religion. Now if u meant a catholic priest by saying father, then go ahead, since it is not of my concern. If u meant my male parent, then it gets personal. But it is exactly as you say, if I were of any religion and you decided to poke fun at the clergy or leaders of the religious institution, please, go ahead. It would be completely ok. In fact from what I see, the Christians and Buddhists and Rastafarians have made enough jokes about themselves that it is difficult to invent more. About Minolta, I'd say its a good PR move, but it lacks backbone and principles. You mean you want to target customers who have zero sense of humour? I'd least expect leisure photographers and creative people to have so little tolerance for expression and humour. So yeah, Minolta did the right thing in terms of business and public relations. But they were dead wrong when it comes to making society more fun. Sad for you that I have no religion for you to insult, but please, do try harder. Maybe you could try insulting atheist or non-church christians or eastern orthodoxy, but strictly i belong to neither of these. But you are always welcome to try. Just keep the personal insults out of the matter, for no one threw any personal abuses at you, right?

1. Reck, the insults were actually made due to some "scholars" and "lawmakers" with edicts n laws that really beg the question. They in fact do not make logical sense in a modern society, or go against the usual norms and practices in our society. Does it bring any empirically discernible good? I do not see it. Not in any peer-reviewed and reputable research anyway. How expert are these experts? Can they answer every question we throw at them without trying to shut us up or diverting the questions, or calling the questions insults n insensitive? Do they dare to face the questions and to divulge their logic or reasoning and their basis of forming such edicts? I doubt so.

1. With regard to the Sultans' positions as heads of religion in their state, does no one find it weird that this position was not granted by any religious rule, law, teaching or edict, but rather was granted by virtue of a secular law? So please read between the lines -> the constitution and secular laws hold priority over the religious laws, since they do in fact guarantee the position of the religious leaders.

1. Funny also that many monarchs are not in the tradition of leading by example, or rather end up leading by showing the worst examples. Imagine the head of Islam in a southern state bashing and abusing his golf caddy. The immunity from legal prosecution has clearly been abused. Is this the correct behaviour for any Muslim, much less a head of religion? In the Tunku Tapes, banned in Malaysia, Tunku Abdul Rahman the prince revealed that his father, a Sultan, frequently drank whisky and rum. He himself frequently played cards. I am not saying that the position is a nice or cosy or easy one. In fact, being at the pinnacle is a tough job. When you are insulted, the religion is not. When you act in such a way that does not deserve respect, you tarnish the religion you represent. Well, tough luck to the respective royals. Better luck to the next generation.