The Malaysian Insider

C'mon Anwar Ibrahim, stand up, tell us your ideas about Hudud, Islamic state etc. We want to know what you stand for.

For now we should be focus on one target, shoot down the corrupted blood sucking BN leeches.

Hudud or not hudud, debate it later.

Afterall hudud is not all that bad as long as you are not orang jahat.

Saudara Low, anwar and wife anti chinese? You are ahead of yourself there, Islam is never anti Chinese nor anti any racelah. In fact there are more Muslims in China then there are Muslims in Malaysia, if you must know. You know Admiral Zheng He, the great Chinese explorer is a Muslim. So go figure.

It is ok to implement Hudud Law as long as it implement it to the Muslim only, just like Yoga or HIV screening. ha ha ha.

"Islam is anti chinese and anti other race lah" when this phrase is spoken by Allah, I belive it. If it is through any holy book or holy man, i do not believe it. We believe in Allah and not book or man. Thank you.

Presently PR will win Kuala Tregganu and PR will rule the country soon. However it wont be permenant because Anwar and wife still is with race and not citizen. Malaysia is actually a very pitiful country. It pain my heart to not being able to develop the country.

materially, samy vellu has help the indian. immaterially, he has not for malaysia has become a racial country. MIC is torn between Malay and Non Malay. If I were him, I opted for resignation. Dont play God, is the last words.

Khairy did critise Husam back tracking on hudud. This only means Khairy is for it. MCA and MIC have critise Husam position in hudud which only means they are also against it, just like DAP.

Anwar has to clarify PR position of this and so has Najib. he has to clarify BN and UMNO position on this issue.

To those who think that non-Muslims will not be affected by Hudud law, think again!

Saturday, November 1st 2008, 3:05 PM
MOGADISHU, Somalia - A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by Islamic militants, a human rights group said.

Dozens of men stoned Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow to death Oct. 27 in a stadium packed with 1,000 spectators in the southern port city of Kismayo, Amnesty International and Somali media reported, citing witnesses. The Islamic militia in charge of Kismayo had accused her of adultery after she reported that three men had raped her, the rights group said.

Just consider the above case - what if the victim was a non-Muslim girl and was raped by Muslims; what if the rapists were non-Muslim and raped a Muslim girl; the most important issue is - why was the victim in a rape case was stoned to death?

The above case was just one of countless cases happening everyday through out the Islamic countries, under the name of Hudud, Syariah, or whatever name.

Do you need to be reminded that women in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to drive? Even in our own nation, under the banner of Islam, PAS proposed (or actually enforced?) to bar women to wear lipstick, to wear high-heels, the most ridiculous part - even to the extend to employ only NOT-SO-PRETTY women in civil service? Pretty? Who and how are they to determine who's pretty? Do they look into mirror themselves?

So to Muslim friends, do you now see the rationale behind the separation of public governence and religion? If such extreme Islamisation process continues in own nation, can you imagine what will be the consequences, and how it affects our country - socially and economically?

I fully respect Islam as a religion. But the issue to mix up religion into public governence... sorry. Non-negotiable.

For one who aspire to be a future PM, Anwar must make his preference known. He should state once and for all, what his stand is, and please do not give give a beat around the bush answer. It is a simple yes or no .
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Morever, why do political leaders always came out with the statement whether from Umno or Pas or Dap etc, that they always has the support of the people? Do they really? Why not have a referendum on what the rakyat or Muslims really wants before making such statemnts?

“If Anwar decides to keep quiet, there are only two possibilities, one; Anwar agrees with the remark made by Husam to implement hudud or DAP has been marginalised in PR,” she said.

That's a simplistic approach but it forces DSAI to respond. Further silence from the PKR camp will cause further damage to the solidarity image of the Pakatan. It doesn't help with Karpal and LGE having to publicly push for an answer or is it the mass media wants the public to have that perception.

DSAI need not respond directly or in person. Azmin or TC could represent him in any function (Christmas mass/party anyone?) to feintly reiterate the secularity of the nation. That ought be enough.

Remember KT is for the taking... don't screw it up. PAS, please read this.

Pas should say that Hudud law is only for the Muslims and wait for comments. For that matter why should Pas say such things without consulting their other polical partners. By not doing so, they create an image of rift in the coalition.

I am not a criminal and therefore I fear not Hudud Law! So, why is it MCA fear Hudud Law being implementated? The answer is simple. Their leaders are likely or prone to be criminals!

implement the hudud for me is not a problem, its good to prevent all the crimes..so dont do any bad thing, and u wont be punished by hudud, as the result, our country will become a peaceful country, just think like that..Islam will treat all people nicely...no offense, and support pr for the betterment of our future life, vote for pas for p.036 election

non muslim shud not worry hudud.there is no problem if u are not guilty.

MR LOW AND OTHERS,

WE HAV 2 DEVILS.PERIOD.SO CHOOSE THE LESSER OF THE 2 DEVILS. KAPISH!? I'D SAY PR IS IN EVERY WAY & IN ANY ISSUE A MUCH LESSER DEVIL. U WANT A PERFECT WORLD? GO LIVE IN THE MOON!

Times like these is when great leaders are tested and revealed whether they are just plain opportunist OR they can chart a new path for a divided people. Its really an intellectual test. If one listen to the arguments, they are same old grounds from both sides. If Anwar is a truly a ideologicial leader for Malaysian, he must search his intellectual understanding and lead Malaysian towards a real resolution of this issue. It is an opportunity to rise but a terrible price paid if he fails. In this respect, Najib is an obvious failure and pretender. If Anwar prove is not that much better than he clearly will have a long battle ahead that is not highly likely to lead to Putrajaya. In some ways Anwar has already proven himself better than Najib by NOT commenting but it appears Malaysians are more demanding for this difficult issue.

The answer for Anwar is NOT to reach for a final answer because its a highly difficult intelletual one. The answer for Anwar is to set the basis for resolution - PROCESS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE GOAL. Most Malaysian even a large part of PAS supporters will tolerate whatever the resolution of the issue so long as the PROCESSS IS CLEAR, TRANSPARENT AND DEMOCRATIC. Outlining a great process of the resolution who already make Anwar the leader and Malaysians to trust his leadership. We are THAT pathetic.

In the end, non-Muslim in this country that PAS politicians, due to its party ideology, is obligated to fight for HUDUD and clearly non-Muslim can accept that right to fight so long as THEIR right to argue for secularity is equally protected. Simply saying HUDUD is a divine obligation is just not acceptable even to most Muslims in this country. Chopping hands and stoning due to some unforseen being is taking faith a little too far in today's technoligical and scientific world. Nik Aziz asked why hanging is acceptable while chopping hands and stoning is NOT. Well, he should be heard and experts in secular capital punishments should answer him, publicly for all to see..

Lou Reed

your understanding on Islamic Law is shallow.. just by browsing a few controversial case on Internet and assume and analyzed it with your own judgment. please read

1) "Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence" by Mohammad Hashim Kamali,
2) The Origins of Islamic Law: The Qur'an, the Muwatta' and Madinan Amal (Culture and Civilization in the Middle East) by Yasin Dutton.slamic
3) Law in the Modern World: Legal System of Saudi Arabia (Studies in Islamic Law & Society) by Frank Vogel.

Islam is the way of life...

Could somebody enlighten me which country past or present that that has implemented Hudud one way or another, do not enforce its policy through force or intimidation? Lets not fool ourselves that non Muslims will not be affected.

maybe PR should = PKR + DAP only.
PAS can sink without their support.
teach them one lesson the wont forget for the rest of their lives.

Hello Biggie,

Please address Lou Reed's concerns about Islam as stated in his comments. Don't just pile up a bunch of links and imagine that you've done Lou and other like-minded saudara-saudara a service, let alone Islam as a religion. Since you have labeled Lou Reed's uderstanding of Islam as "shallow", I take it that yours is very deep indeed. So please, prove your mantle and answer Lou's concerns from your own learned posturing. And please refrain from piling up another heap of Internet links. Enough of that, bro.

Peace and happy holidays.

This PAS fellow is playing "wayang" with muslim and non-muslim voters. They know very well that they could not achieve their goal in setting Islamic State without the support of Non-muslim bumiputras from East Malaysia. PAS, please stop cheating the voters

Beside hudud, Anwar/PKR need to answer this question:

What happen to the Kulim MP Zulkifli Nordin?

If Anwar/PKR can't provide satisfactory answer, they will get less support from non-Malay/non-Muslim in the next GE.

If no action against the Kulim MP, then PKR should drop the "K" in the "PKR".

PETALING JAYA, Sept 6 – Kulim Bandar Baharu MP Zulkifli Nordin, who was scheduled to face the Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) disciplinary committee today to explain his behaviour at a Bar Council forum last month, has been given a reprieve.

The hearing has been postponed to an undecided date, said Selangor Menteri Besar and state PKR chief Tan Sri Abdul Khalid Ibrahim during a press conference welcoming former Federal Territory Gerakan leader Datuk Dr Tan Kee Kwong into the party this afternoon.

"He will be given a fair hearing where he will have the chance to explain his side of the story. We have the word 'Keadilan' in our name," said Khalid. The Malay word "keadilan" translates to "justice" in English.

PAS has broken his promise that PAS is for ALL. What Husam said seem to contradict with the manifesto in the March 8 G. Election. Hudud Law is only for Muslim. Yes right "Hudud Law will only be implemented and enforced on Muslims only." I don't buy it. How's it possible that two contradictive laws existing in one country? If Hudud were to be implemented, the current common law will be marginized or abolished. There is not issue of anti-chinese or anti-indian in this matter but what is so important about this Hudud Law since we already have a very fine law. Why complicate things?? Can you imagine the circumstance of having different laws for different ethnics in this country? This people in this country will be more segregated than it is now. Non-muslims will be very cautious and afraid when dealing with the muslim to prevent making any mistake that may lead them to the punished by Hudud Law. In Hudud Law, there are so many things that we are practicing today may seem to be partially or nearly wrong or against the law. What makes PAS think that non-muslim should not be worry? PAS should concern more about safety, security , economy, corruption and judicial problems in this country rather than just religious matter only. PAS as a political party, should do more than just religion only. Hudud Law does not bring more income to the country. Hudud Law scares the investors away. Hudud Law scares the non-muslims in the country. We are happy with the law we have now, please do not complicate things.

Lou Reed,

Please give your half-baked lecture on Shariah to your pet dog if you have any.

It is nothing but a piece of half-cooked opinion piece tainted with hatred & prejudice on the religion you obviously do not profess.

To pick a bad case of implementation of Shariah and paint a bad picture of the entire system is not only unfair, but is an obvious attempt to put poison in the views of people towards this religion called Islam - an attempt being systematically ochestrated by certain powerful groups in the West.

You must be either ignorant or chose to ignore that in Shariah criminal procedure, there is a very heavy & stringent burden of proof shouldred by the prosecutor. For example, in a case of adultery, prosecution must produce the evidence of 4 absolutely reliable witnesses who actually saw with their eyes the penetration of the penis into the vagina.

In a sodomy case, bringing the bulky matress like in PP v Anwar Ibrahim will not help the presecution, and yet he was found guilty by the trial court, under the conventional laws. If it was tried under Shariah, the case would have been dismissed in the first instance.

As for theft, the thieve will not be punished under hudud if he steals out of desparation, hunger, poverty etc.

If these strigent requirements are not met (which to me is almost impossible to be met) then the accused persons will not be subjected to hudud law, but will then be subjected to Takzir (ie the laws enacted by the government ie man made laws). In these situations, they will be subject to conventional laws like Penal Code etc.

The saying that "it is better to let 10 criminals free than to punish an innocent man" came from the mouth of a caliph of the Muslim empire.

Somalia is a nation shattered by decades of conflicts, colonisation & incursions by the Westen powers. The execution of the girl was carried out by the warlords who obviously did not follow Shariah. Their ignorance and erroneous implementation of Shariah shoud not be likened to those practices by Islamic civilization before.

In Sharia, the Somali girl would not have been punished if these strict procedural rules were observed. If she was to be punished, then it must be based on concrict proof that she had sex voluntarily i.e. she made up the story that she was raped.

Saudi's ban of women from diving has no connection with hudud or qisas at all. It is the ruling imposed perhaps based on circumstances in Saudi Arabia which we do not know. But it is not a principle in Sharia to prohibit women from driving. I'm sure we have women drivers in other parts of Islamic world.

Your selection of the wrong distinguishable examples to advance your bigotic view on the religion of Islam is clearly driven by your malicious wicked and twisted mind.

Be sensible, if you can't be tolerant!

What is your problem? After reading a lot of article about Hudud and its comments in this site it is very sad to know that most of us "Malaysians" rather say 'NO' than 'YES, WHY NOT WE SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT THIS'. For saying that we Malaysian were championing freedom of speech, the wake of intellectuality, the globalization bla, bla, bla, we just take the easiest way out and shut ourself from working together as one by simply saying NO. Its not like we are short of Islamic scholars and Law scholars who could take this and sat down to find the best way to please each other.

To Lou Reed:
read what you wrote...
>MOGADISHU, Somalia - A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was stoned to death in Somalia after being accused of adultery by "ISLAMIC MILITANTS", a human rights group said.

Come on man it is written there "ISLAMIC MILITANTS". Do you know what militants means? Do you know in what state of mind they are in or are you trying to implicate that every muslim given power will do/be the same? What is the education level there? what is their economic status? What is the condition in those region? Is there no other non-islamic / non-muslim militant groups around the world? Come on stop the stereotyping.
And who do all of you call moderate muslims? The one who in the day goes for friday prayer but went to the club late night enjoying women and drinks? Who fast/not then celebrate hari raya yet secretly taking/giving bribes. Who preach to their sons and daughters not to gamble or do illicit sex yet quietly having an affair with someone's wife and collecting toto or magnum ticket and anxiously waiting for the result. Come on... Dont hide this facts we all knew who we and our friends are...To muslims "ISLAM is the way of life". Its not about declaring an Islamic state or start going beserk chopping off other people hands and stoning people. If this is what you see of hudud than you are just too shallow. Taking it for granted because you are too lazy to find out what it is because it is easier to say it is a crazy law so the answer is no. period. When you talk about way of life it means that it covers wholly. Not from just the law aspects such as Syariah but also islamic banking (ie: no interest, no hedging transactions), education (stressing education in a more spiritually and morally approach) etc, to name a few.

I have to agree that some of PAS stands or actions is a bit extreme which scares/infuriate the non-muslims. I myself would not have agreed on some of their stands or opinion, like banning women wearing lipsticks or giving priority to less-beautiful women since they are less likly to get a good husband to support them. Ya some of it seems a bit foolish and extreme but here is where PR should come in and discuss that does it seems feasible in this multiracial community. Even to DAP, they shouldnt simply say no. Why dont they take a more intelligent stand and advice PAS on how they could both get what they want but instead "Pas/muslims says we want Hudud, DAP say absolutely not." "DAP says we need Chinese school so that we could sustain our culture and authority to built our temple because of the freedom of religion, Muslims/PAS says....No" then what happen? WAR? Hahaha

tbc....

Living in a multiracial/multicultural country is like a marriage where there must have a give and take situation. Consideration is a must. But its a sad thing to see of all this is what we lack. "Championing globalization, freedom of speech, the open mindset, no oppression to others, no more DEB." Ptui...my a**!!! Same goes with DEB...So what our intelligent malaysians acts? Why, give stupid comments lah..."Lazy Malay, Blood sucking Chinese, Ungrateful Indians...bla, bla, bla... Hahaha wonderful aint it? Cant you gather a group of intellectuals with facts on their hand and discuss. For the against and that defends sit down discuss the best solution. Do we need DEB? If we strongly need it still, what is no more relevant? Do we have to still put on quota for the IPTA or should we consider meritocracy? Is it still needed the 30% allocation for a business setup or is it plain competing disadvantage for the rest?
We then could take the result as a proof and show to the ruling government along with thousand if not millions of signed petition by Malaysians to the ruling government or to the Royal Rulers and show that this is what we need. Even if it got rejected for whatever case at least we now know that we all of races can surely work together to achieve a common goal. But ya again what do we do? Complaint!

When Prof. Khoo Kay Kim says that we should opt for Sekolah Kebangsaan and not vernacular school, what do we say to him? Traitor to his own race, stupid, ungrateful chinese, bla, bla bla... Never has it cross your mind that we need a change in our education system? Dont you agree that if we can restructure back the education system contemplating more like western approach where all these languages ie. Bahasa Malayu, Mandarin, and even Tamil can be learn as extra classes which are predetermine by their parents and to be count as a credit for their passing grade like in the university? Wouldnt you like to give the malay and the indian childrens a chance to learn mandarin together with your chinese sons/daugthers? For all the great contribution the Prof. gives all is lost because of 1 disagreement. A shameful reflections of what Malaysians is....

it is true that outside there is no racial tension. Ya sure, i have a lot of chinese and indian friends. I would really love if my GF is an amoi. Hey i even share my food (the same plate), drinks (the same cup) and even cigarette (ya which already have his spit on the cig. butt) together with my non-muslim non-bumi friends as long as it does not cross my religious line (eg: not eating non-halal food or drinking alcoholic drinks at that moment). I do came and visit them, i do wish them happy festive holiday and i even sat down with them at the chinese restaurant and sipping a cup of coffee while watching EPL. But do we really talk about all these sensitive issues among us? No. Why? We are afraid that we will offend them but yet when we are in our own community we sang a different tune talking whatever we want in the name of freedom of speech not even cares to know if what we say would hurt other feelings because who cares as long we dont feel the pain. Im sick and tired of this attitude...

I dont think that even if PR wins the next election things will improve. Why? because malaysians are made of a whole lot of lazy a** who still giving out the same tone of comments and discriminatory remarks and are not ready to pull themselves together, sit down and discuss like a civilize people to reach a common goal.

p/s: feel free to negative my comment or flame my opinion because I DONT CARE LESS and i talk from my heart and from what i see...

Regards
Asyraf